PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by ken161

Bill Mastro was caught on a wiretap claiming that a very large percentage of these big money cards sold by the major auction houses, like the above Aaron rookie, had been tampered with at some point. I suspect this wasn't idle chatter on Mastro's part.

Interestingly, this Aaron was altered after Mastro was thrown in jail.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

There is another matching paper pulp fiber above the "o" in "Doubles on the second to last line of the player bio.

Man, that is some true artistic recoloring. The tough thing about the '54's is that there is only 1/3 of the card to look at for fibers that can't be recolored. Great work as always.

Acutally, if you have a Heritage account I suggest you sign in so you can check the paper fibers yourself. It is 100% a match. Their zoom feature works perfectly. Every random fiber in on the back (that is not in green) is a perfect match. Damn.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by signed79

I see several other color touch up spots on the back of that card.



FBI - PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!

People should reconsider paying big $$$ before relying on anyone else to help them out first!

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:27113379

1951 Parkhurst #56 Ted Lindsay PSA 5 to PSA 7
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 2/26/2017 as a PSA 5 by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $213.50
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 6/20/2017 as a PSA 8 for $387.00
Final price: $387.00
Value gain: $173.50


Both edges of this '51 Parkhurst Lindsay card have been trimmed. They've been boxed in pink. The green circles on the back are the common paper fibers confirming the cards are one and the same.

Most importantly, I want to draw your attention to the blue box on the front. In the PSA 5 photo, you can see a small print mark is in that box. In the PSA 7 photo, that print mark appears more diffuse. This is due to soaking that card in a liquid. Was this a failed attempt to remove the stain? Or is soaking a card prior to trimming it part of the process employed by accused card doctors such as Gary Moser?

PSA 5: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1432742
PSA 7: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1506255

[HarryLime]

Absent a before photo, how do you detect that level of recoloring? It seems like it would be impossible. Unless whatever they use leaves behind a residue that can be picked up by something other than the archaic tools we've been using up to this point (blacklights, etc.).

Quite a score for Heritage.

Arthur

[tconte]

I think you have to be crazy to spend big money on high grade vintage and pre-war
cards in today's environment.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by tconte

I think you have to be crazy to spend big money on high grade vintage and pre-war
cards in today's environment.

Agree. Although I think there might be a healthy level of ignorance, too.

Problem though is that everyone has a different definition of "big money."

Arthur

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Interestingly, this Aaron was altered after Mastro was thrown in jail.

I would not make the assumption the SGC 8 was not altered in its SGC slabbed state.

[CaptSpaulding]

Unless technology for recoloring has changed the recoloring on the 54 Aaron would have easily showed up under a routine examination of the card under the halogen lights that PSA uses.

Again for those who think detection is rocket science, it is not. The work being done might be good but anyone with two eyes, a halogen lamp, maybe a loupe (should something look off) and hobby experience should be able to catch these things.

[pip]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

I would not make the assumption the SGC 8 was not altered in its SGC slabbed state.

What do you mean?

[pip]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Unless technology for recoloring has changed the recoloring on the 54 Aaron would have easily showed up under a routine examination of the card under the halogen lights that PSA uses.

Again for those who think detection is rocket science, it is not. The work being done might be good but anyone with two eyes, a halogen lamp, maybe a loupe (should something look off) and hobby experience should be able to catch these things.

Exactly right.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by pip

What do you mean?

That Aaaron, just like many other high-end cards, may have a history of multiple alterations over time and different slabs.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Could also be insulation. If you send in a bunch of cards that all have an edge that displays a certain aspect that might cause one to think it was trimmed it could plant the seed of doubt.

If it's just on the Mantle, you label it trimmed.

But if it's on all 20 cards and many of them are only worth $20, maybe this is just some weird factory misfit?

Insulation.

Arthur

But if the 20 cards with unusual/different/weird edge traits are all received from the same submitter, would it not raise a huge red flag? I know that it would for me, if I was the grader. Especially if I had seen enough cards from past experience, and knew this issue never had these traits.

Then suddenly 20 misfit cards come in, all from the same source? Seems a lot fishier than trying to slip in just one... and probably a good time to break out the ruler. An honest and unbiased grader would scrutinize these cards to a far greater extent... not less. Just my opinion.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

That Aaaron, just like many other high-end cards, may have a history of multiple alterations over time and different slabs.

I would not be surprised if this was fairly common.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Unless technology for recoloring has changed the recoloring on the 54 Aaron would have easily showed up under a routine examination of the card under the halogen lights that PSA uses.



Again for those who think detection is rocket science, it is not. The work being done might be good but anyone with two eyes, a halogen lamp, maybe a loupe (should something look off) and hobby experience should be able to catch these things.

Would this method detect a card that has been entirely recolored?

I’m not saying that’s what happened here, just curious.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:42313890

1951 Parkhurst #95 Paul Ronty SGC 7 to PSA 8
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 12/9/2015 as a SGC 7 by eBay seller starxcards to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $69.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 3/25/2019 as a PSA 8 for $155.50
Final price: $155.50
Value gain: $86.50


Another trimmed '51 Parkie card here purchased using Moser's eBay ID, graded with PSA, and first sold through PWCC. EBay seller starxcards did not provide a back photo of the SGC 7, but the three paper fibers circled in pink are perfect matches. The trimmed right edge is highlighted in green.

SGC 7: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...5/75237/SGC/84
PSA 8: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1934537

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Would this method detect a card that has been entirely recolored?

I’m not saying that’s what happened here, just curious.

If one is familiar with the characteristics of a sports card (and anyone in a grading room should be) it is pretty simple to detect if something is not right. Again, the graders do not need to identify what was exactly done to the card to reject it. They only need to identify that something is not original and that can be done fairly easily using one's eyes and a good light source.

I consider Mike Baker (former head grader at PSA) to have been one of the most competent graders in the industry. Although it was many years ago I never saw him use anything but his two eyes, his knowledge of cards and a halogen light when grading.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

If one is familiar with the characteristics of a sports card (and anyone in a grading room should be) it is pretty simple to detect if something is not right. Again, the graders do not need to identify what was exactly done to the card to reject it. They only need to identify that something is not original and that can be done fairly easily using one's eyes and a good light source.



I consider Mike Baker (former head grader at PSA) to have been one of the most competent graders in the industry. Although it was many years ago I never saw him use anything but his two eyes, his knowledge of cards and a halogen light when grading.

Ok, thanks.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:23018033

1952 Topps Look 'N See #46 Annie Oakley PSA 6 to PSA 9
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: In a user's private Registry

Sold on 3/20/2014 as a PSA 6 by eBay seller glkalk to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $16.49
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 10/20/2014 as a PSA 9 for $735.00
Final price: $735.00
Value gain: $718.51


Like many others, eBay seller glkalk did not provide a back photo. However, they provided a frontal photo with good resolution, so I was able to match the "before trimming" and "after trimming" photos using paper fibers and/or print marks, which are circled in pink. The trimmed edges are boxed in red. Although this card later sold at a Heritage auction in February of this year, this PWCC sale was its first in a PSA 9 holder.



PSA 6: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/n...6/186347/PSA/6
PSA 9: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1041941

[pip]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

If one is familiar with the characteristics of a sports card (and anyone in a grading room should be) it is pretty simple to detect if something is not right. Again, the graders do not need to identify what was exactly done to the card to reject it. They only need to identify that something is not original and that can be done fairly easily using one's eyes and a good light source.

I consider Mike Baker (former head grader at PSA) to have been one of the most competent graders in the industry. Although it was many years ago I never saw him use anything but his two eyes, his knowledge of cards and a halogen light when grading.

Competent but severely compromised.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pip

Competent but severely compromised.

Maybe so but what has been demonstrated here since May shows me that is the apparently the norm for TPG. It is not what is submitted but who submits it.

[corndog]

Note: I have created a new thread regarding this trimmer that is also in the Baseball section but wanted to also post this here since it is a "catch-all" for card doctors.

78 year old Johnny Adams, Jr. according to his one page website has been buying and selling cards since 1965.
Other vintage collectors may be able to share his history when they see the name.

Johnny Adams, Jr. is named as a card trimmer in the "anonymous letter from a PSA insider" posted online by SportsCardRadio.Com. http://www.sportscardradio.com/anony...-trimmer-list/

His Ebay user ID is johnnyadamsjr and he has had the same user ID for 20 years. https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...rchInterval=30

His masked Ebay ID is a***j and his masked VCP ID is m***h.

The vast majority of his purchases are from PWCC and probstein123 and all of his purchased cards that he resells are consigned through PWCC or at card shows.
His feedback received as a buyer is over 5,900.
The date range of trimmed cards that I have found so far are from 2014 to December 2018.
Many of his graded card purchases are resold by PWCC in the same holder as simple flips.
Some are cracked and regraded with improved grade bumps with no apparent alteration (that I can see).
The rest are cracked out, trimmed and regraded with improved grades including PSA 10s.
All of his cards are vintage and all grading has been by PSA.

The first card that I post is the one that I will add image snips that trace the feedback to Ebay ID johnnyadamsjr.

PSA Cert #41738145

PSA Set Registry: none

1955 Topps Ellis Kinder #115

Value gain of $302.01

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller x2drich2000 as a PSA 8 for $49.99 on April 22, 2018.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...=&limit=999999

Image snip of purchase in VCP:



Image snip taken from Ebay seller x2drich2000 feedback page of feedback left for johnnyadamsjr after purchase:



Image snip taken from johnnyadamsjr feedback page of feedback left to him by Ebay seller x2drich2000:



Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $352.00 on December 05, 2018.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1882581

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge.






___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


PSA Cert #26975933

PSA Set Registry: none

1951 Bowman Danny O'Connell #93 - Population 1 of 2

Value gain of $3,819.00

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller www,stevenovella,com as a PSA 8 for $47.00 on July 14, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...93/69884/PSA/8

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 10 for $3,866.00 on April 10, 2017.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1458478

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge.





___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


PSA Cert #24380539

PSA Set Registry: none

1956 Topps Bob Lemon #255

Value gain of $814.50

This card was purchased by masked VCP ID m***h (Johnny Adams, Jr.) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8 for $116.50 on February 06, 2015.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1066005

Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 9 for $931.00 on July 09, 2015.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1148593

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed left edge. Note that the left edge is distorted on the front image of the PSA 9 due to the card edge being butted up against the plastic bumper.
The back image has a clear view of the trimming.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:24466929

1951 Parkhurst #105 Jim Conacher SGC 6.5 to PSA 6
Alteration types: Trimming, corners sharpened
Set Registry status: None

Sold on 6/15/2014 as a SGC 6.5 by eBay seller davidbvintage to whitman111 (Gary Moser's eBay ID) for $110.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 9/23/2015 as a PSA 6 for $162.49
Final price: $162.49
Value gain: $52.49


This '51 Parkie had its right edge trimmed for certain, and the left two corners were artificially sharpened by the card doctor. Seller davidbvintage did not include a back photo of the SGC 6.5, but three unique paper fibers and print marks were matched to the PSA 6 sold by PWCC. Please note: The winner of this card from PWCC was Moser's whitman111 ID. Thus, Gary Moser was both the consignor of this card to PWCC and the winning bidder.

SGC 6.5: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...5/75324/SGC/82
PSA 6: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...05/75324/PSA/6

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:25590032

1951 Parkhurst #97 Nick Mickoski PSA 7 to PSA 9
Alteration types: Trimming
Set Registry status: In a user's private Registry

Sold on 6/23/2010 as a PSA 7 by eBay seller gerrys-sportscards to h***a (an unknown masked ID) for $96.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 5/22/2016 as a PSA 9 for $3,050.00
Final price: $3,050.00
Value gain: $2,954.00!


This trimmed card demonstrates the earning power of the PSA Registry. The buyer of the PSA 7 was the masked eBay ID h***a. I could not find any subsequent sales of this PSA 7 prior to its reappearance as a trimmed PSA 9, so h***a may or may not be an unknown trimmer. Regardless, the first sale of this altered card as a PSA 9 was through PWCC. Green boxes show the trimmed edges. Pink circles are paper fibers that confirm the match. If anyone has any information on the identity of h***a, please send it my way.



PSA 7: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/h...97/75332/PSA/7
PSA 9: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1287364

[MoreToppsPlease]

Incredible. I wish bidding patterns were visible, naturally I’d like to see how this and other altered cards were bid up.