Roger Maris HOF

[JohnnyAppleseed]

Originally Posted by jeff152380

Terrell Davis is the best comparison to Roger Maris if you ask me and guess what he is in the Hall!
But you can't compare football to baseball.
We all know Lawrence Taylor was on coke/steroids and who knows what else every game and he was elected first ballot. Tom Brady will get in when he clearly cheated with the deflate balls stuff.. If that was baseball he would get black balled. Football puts the best players in period.. Baseball voters are a bunch of geeks who don't even know how to throw a baseball.

Carlos Beltran would already be in if it wasnt for the trash can incident. He was then 5th outfielder who didnt even play and they hold it against him.

Ive really lost my respect for the honor of baseball hall of fame of the last 10 years. Many guys elected did the same thing guys are being held out for....

Kind of incredible this is still generally accepted by anyone with a working brain as fact. Wonder what happened the following year when the NFL was going to gather data on ball PSI pre and post-game and then never released any of it...

Maybe people just don't like Brady because he wins and it's easier to believe that he cheated rather than won fairly.

Anyway, Roger Maris is probably the posterboy of peak vs. longevity for the HoF. If you peak so hard you break one of the biggest chase records, you earned at least a spot at the table to talk about it.

[49ersSF]

Cecil Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jose Bautista, and George Foster all belong in the Roger Maris Hall of Fame.

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Cecil Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jose Bautista, and George Foster all belong in the Roger Maris Hall of Fame.

Please add Bo Jackson and Will Clark to the list

[Centauri3]

Roger Maris should be in.

[Centauri3]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Cecil Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jose Bautista, and George Foster all belong in the Roger Maris Hall of Fame.

How many of them held the single season HR record?

[ThoseBackPages]

open the door, and let em in!

[TBTC Baseball]

Originally Posted by Centauri3

How many of them held the single season HR record?

Put in Ed Williamson then. He held the record nearly as long as Maris did.

[49ersSF]

Might as well let Earl Webb in as well. 67 Doubles in a season in 1931 and still owns the record nearly 100 years later.

Owen Wilson had 36 Triples in 1912. That is still the record 113 years later. HOF!@!

Terry Turner holds the record of a 5.4 defensive WAR rating in 1906. HOF!!!!

Open the door, and let em in!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

first ballot lol

Just more evidence that WAR doesn't matter. CC 251 wins, Schilling 216. CC won a Cy Young, Schilling never did. If WAR was that important Schilling would have been elected in his first few years on the HOF ballot.

[Gem10collection]

I would even go in the opposite direction and remove some HOFer's who don't belong (Harold Baines!!!!!!).

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by rats60

Just more evidence that WAR doesn't matter. CC 251 wins, Schilling 216. CC won a Cy Young, Schilling never did. If WAR was that important Schilling would have been elected in his first few years on the HOF ballot.

Schilling debuted on a stacked ballot that included ten current Hall of Famers as well as steroid players like Bonds and Clemens. He was also overshadowed by much-better starting pitchers during his playing days -- Maddux, Martinez, Johnson and Clemens all have much higher JAWS scores. Heck, even Mussina has a slightly better JAWS score. He's still deserving of induction, both statistically and accomplishment-wise, but his post-career scandals and bad reputation have kept him from getting the votes needed to be voted in.

Sabathia benefitted from a lack of strong starting pitching candidates on the ballot in recent years -- few starting pitchers who debuted over the last two decades are statistically deserving of induction. And those that are deserving are not yet eligible -- Verlander, Greinke, Kershaw and Scherzer.

[carlo16]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

I would even go in the opposite direction and remove some HOFer's who don't belong (Harold Baines!!!!!!).

Poor Harold. He isn’t even close to the “worst” player in the HOF.

[fabiani12333]

Maris only had what would be considered two great seasons -- 6-or-more WAR.

In comparison, Dave Parker had 3-to-4, depending on which WAR you're using.

It's also likely Maris benefitted greatly from hitting in front of Mantle -- he only had an .824 OPS in 499 PA the year before joining the Yankees:

Yes, Maris benefited big-time from batting ahead of Mantle. Roger did not receive a single intentional walk in 1961. He hit .293 with 54 homers in 475 at-bats with Mantle on deck, but hit an astonishingly low .174 with seven homers in 115 at-bats without the Mick's imposing presence on deck.
To be fair to Maris, the difference in his batting average according to whether or not Mantle was on deck is a bit skewed. Early in the season, Maris characteristically batted seventh against left-handers, so his .174 average was produced chiefly against pitchers against whom he might be expected to have the most difficulty.

https://www.espn.com/page2/s/number/010427.html

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Please add Bo Jackson and Will Clark to the list

Uh, Will Clark was the best 1B in MLB for a half decade. The only reason he's not in the Hall of Fame is he had problems staying healthy in the second half of his career and was overshadowed by steroid players.

[discodanman45]

WAR is fine for comparing modern players, but it is not fair for comparing players before the stat carried this much weight. Players like Tony Gwynn and Ichiro would play completely different in this era because of the emphasis on that stat and analytics. Gwynn and Ichiro would have never flirted with .400 BA in this era of baseball. They both would be forced to take more chances by hitting for doubles and home runs, both being very capable of hitting 25 plus.

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Cecil Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jose Bautista, and George Foster all belong in the Roger Maris Hall of Fame.

Ryan Howard is one that came to mind for me when I saw this thread. A couple of monster years and a couple of good years, but beyond that nothing that screams elite. War and strikeouts aside, Howard's stats are slightly better than the career stats for Maris.

[ottobord]

Originally Posted by 49ersSF

Cecil Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jose Bautista, and George Foster all belong in the Roger Maris Hall of Fame.

You missed a ton, but Don Larsen is in, most famous moment in World Series history. I'll rattle off a few that get in now, Norm Cash (It's all I heard from my native Michigan mom), of course Munson and Mattingly, Bobby Bonds gets in now, not only his great playing career but fathered Barry. I could keep going.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

WAR is fine for comparing modern players, but it is not fair for comparing players before the stat carried this much weight. Players like Tony Gwynn and Ichiro would play completely different in this era because of the emphasis on that stat and analytics. Gwynn and Ichiro would have never flirted with .400 BA in this era of baseball. They both would be forced to take more chances by hitting for doubles and home runs, both being very capable of hitting 25 plus.

Ichiro, yes, even though he did play in the modern analytics era -- he finally stopped playing in 2019.

But Gwynn was a good hitter regardless:

132 wRC+: tied for 27th-highest all-time out of 125 right fielders with at least 6,000 PA

550 RE24: 23rd-highest in MLB since 1974 (first year of RE24)

[f2tornado]

Maris injured his hand in '65 and was never the same. Even if he did hit the way he did before then, he maybe ends up with 350 HRs instead of the 275 did hit. I'd gladly put him in over Baines given the two MVP seasons and three WS titles.

Darryl Strawberry is a more modern comp sans the legal issues.

[xDomePatrolx]

Originally Posted by rats60

Just more evidence that WAR doesn't matter. CC 251 wins, Schilling 216. CC won a Cy Young, Schilling never did. If WAR was that important Schilling would have been elected in his first few years on the HOF ballot.

OK?

Schilling had a
lower ERA
higher ERA+
lower WHip
more strike outs (w/ 300 less innings)
higher K%
lower BB%
more championships

I feel Schilling was the better overall pitcher

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by f2tornado

Maris injured his hand in '65 and was never the same. Even if he did hit the way he did before then, he maybe ends up with 350 HRs instead of the 275 did hit. I'd gladly put him in over Baines given the two MVP seasons and three WS titles.

Darryl Strawberry is a more modern comp sans the legal issues.

Strawberry had a 40 WAR before he turned 30. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[sauceboy]

Originally Posted by rats60

Just more evidence that WAR doesn't matter. CC 251 wins, Schilling 216. CC won a Cy Young, Schilling never did. If WAR was that important Schilling would have been elected in his first few years on the HOF ballot.

Schilling would've been a no-brainer if he knew how to keep his mouth shut. CC was far more beloved by the media.

On the topic of Maris, he shouldn't be in. It's not just his WAR that is low. You'd have to start making a lot of exceptions if he was voted in.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by sauceboy

Schilling would've been a no-brainer if he knew how to keep his mouth shut. CC was far more beloved by the media.

On the topic of Maris, he shouldn't be in. It's not just his WAR that is low. You'd have to start making a lot of exceptions if he was voted in.

I don't think the statistical comparison for Maris matters. This is the Hall of FAME! Name one retired player not in the HOF that has a rookie card from 1952 Topps and on, that carries as much value as Maris. His name will always be told in the history of baseball and he is more remembered than the majority of hall of famers.

Edit: Oops, meant retired player not in the HOF.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Name one retired player that has a rookie card from 1952 Topps and on, that carries as much value as Maris.

Maybe I'm not clear on the parameters, but this seems really easy.

[Drew3000]

Originally Posted by rats60

Just more evidence that WAR doesn't matter. CC 251 wins, Schilling 216. CC won a Cy Young, Schilling never did. If WAR was that important Schilling would have been elected in his first few years on the HOF ballot.

Lmfao. Congrats on making the stupidest post of the day

WAR doesn’t matter but pitcher wins does? Bet you’re also really into saves

War doesn’t matter but a cy young award does? A voted on, bias award

Schilling is awesome for calling out HOF voters.