Fernando Tatis Jr

[bywayofvintage]

For the long term, which would you rather have? Both #410's:

SGC 10 or PSA 9

[HarryLime]

I think the increase in 9s is also due to the fact that collectors are just sending everything in these days. Soto RCs? Send them all in. Vlad RCs? Send them all in.

Where in the not-so-distant past cards would get at least mildly screened, now they're just all getting sent in and folks are hoping for hail Mary miracle 10s. This isn't directed at anyone here but we have to remember that the vast majority of people would make shite card graders.

Arthur

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think the increase in 9s is also due to the fact that collectors are just sending everything in these days. Soto RCs? Send them all in. Vlad RCs? Send them all in.

Where in the not-so-distant past cards would get at least mildly screened, now they're just all getting sent in and folks are hoping for hail Mary miracle 10s. This isn't directed at anyone here but we have to remember that the vast majority of people would make shite card graders.

Arthur

This season is definitely over or soon will be, meaning send everything. People will screen their cards more diligently and possibly even invest in tools to see imperfections. I am amazed by the number of reveals I see that are ultra modern cards that get less than 9 grades. I expect to get 9’s even if I screen cards closely. 10’s SHOULD be more difficult to get and 9’s on certain cards is a great grade. Ultra Modern? Not so much considering the price of grading.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by jasonm2121

They are giving 9s like water these days

I got a couple small subs back recently and I was 1 for 8 on 10s on TC cards with a 90%+ gem rate. I looked those over hard and my previous grading experience from last season was going 4 for 5 on 10s on 50-70% 10 pop cards.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

This season is definitely over or soon will be, meaning send everything. People will screen their cards more diligently and possibly even invest in tools to see imperfections. I am amazed by the number of reveals I see that are ultra modern cards that get less than 9 grades. I expect to get 9’s even if I screen cards closely. 10’s SHOULD be more difficult to get and 9’s on certain cards is a great grade. Ultra Modern? Not so much considering the price of grading.

I just looked at the three subs I sent in before PSA shut down and there are 203s and 410s that I know for a fact won't 10 but I sent them in anyway.

My thought process? I just want them in a PSA holder and a 9 is fine for the price I'm paying versus the price it will probably cost to get them slabbed in the future. Anything low serial-numbered (I'd say less than 25) I would send in no matter what grade it was going to come back in (I don't do the "it came back an 8 so crack it out and sell it raw" thing).

I don't think people are factoring in the cost of actual price + convenience of having a card already in a slab. PSA isn't making headway on their orders during this shutdown. Just think about that. If you have a raw card right now that's worth $200 you're realistically looking at a year, at least, before you have it back in a TPGer slab.

I think there's a decent contingency of people that thought that through before the shutdown and sent in gargantuan subs. I believe PSA said they got more subs on those last two days than they had gotten the entire year combined up to that point. Everything got sent in.

Arthur

[FT35]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think the increase in 9s is also due to the fact that collectors are just sending everything in these days. Soto RCs? Send them all in. Vlad RCs? Send them all in.

Where in the not-so-distant past cards would get at least mildly screened, now they're just all getting sent in and folks are hoping for hail Mary miracle 10s. This isn't directed at anyone here but we have to remember that the vast majority of people would make shite card graders.

Arthur

Very much agree with this. Player has a lot to do with what's graded. The only issue I have is when I am pre-grading them using the same eyes that have typically been correct on around 90-95% of the cards I've subbed over the years and I have it down to 2 stacks--one of 10's and one that are likely 9's and when they come back, most of those "10 stack" Tatis cards turned out as 9's. Same with Soto. Whereas the Pete Alonso, Gleyber and Eloy stacks were 99% accurately pre-graded. The only players I miss on (at an outlandish rate) are the better players. The pre-grading standards didn't change, but the player name did.

I also don't sub more than x amount of the same card per order. That has started to help a little--I think when a grader grades a large stack of the same card, it becomes more comparative grading rather than to the set of grading standards. They find a perfect gem and that becomes the bar for a 10. Whereas, if you had a single copy of 410 in a stack of other cards, and that card happened to be centered 56-44 b/r border, it may still get a 10 because the centering still falls in the gem range.

Little experiment: I bet if you had 25 pack-pulled Tatis 410's to grade, and you sent them all in at once, you'd get 10 or less gems. But if you sent those in over 5 orders--no more than 5 per order, I bet you'd end up with 12-14 gems. The other part of the experiment would be to grade the 25 cards at once as you normally would, keep your 10 gems, then crack and re-sub all 15 9's and see the percentage that come back 10's. At least 3-4 would be my guess.

[seanrs1]

Originally Posted by FT35

Very much agree with this. Player has a lot to do with what's graded. The only issue I have is when I am pre-grading them using the same eyes that have typically been correct on around 90-95% of the cards I've subbed over the years and I have it down to 2 stacks--one of 10's and one that are likely 9's and when they come back, most of those "10 stack" Tatis cards turned out as 9's. Same with Soto. Whereas the Pete Alonso, Gleyber and Eloy stacks were 99% accurately pre-graded. The only players I miss on (at an outlandish rate) are the better players. The pre-grading standards didn't change, but the player name did.

I also don't sub more than x amount of the same card per order. That has started to help a little--I think when a grader grades a large stack of the same card, it becomes more comparative grading rather than to the set of grading standards. They find a perfect gem and that becomes the bar for a 10. Whereas, if you had a single copy of 401 in a stack of other cards, and that card happened to be centered 56-44 b/r border, it may still get a 10 because the centering still falls in the gem range.

Little experiment: I bet if you had 25 pack-pulled Tatis 401's to grade, and you sent them all in at once, you'd get 10 or less gems. But if you sent those in over 5 orders--no more than 5 per order, I bet you'd end up with 12-14 gems. The other part of the experiment would be to grade the 25 cards at once as you normally would, keep your 10 gems, then crack and re-sub all 15 9's and see the percentage that come back 10's. At least 3-4 would be my guess.

Are you finding that your prescreened 9's are still getting 9's or are those now dropping to 8's?

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think the increase in 9s is also due to the fact that collectors are just sending everything in these days. Soto RCs? Send them all in. Vlad RCs? Send them all in.

Where in the not-so-distant past cards would get at least mildly screened, now they're just all getting sent in and folks are hoping for hail Mary miracle 10s. This isn't directed at anyone here but we have to remember that the vast majority of people would make shite card graders.

Arthur

Couldn’t agree more. FB groups were littered this past summer with people ripping retail and then sending nearly every card from the rip, in for grading. So I can only imagine, the 8s and 9s to come for these star guys.


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[FT35]

Originally Posted by seanrs1

Are you finding that your prescreened 9's are still getting 9's or are those now dropping to 8's?

They are still 9's--even on a few cards I thought would be 8's. What I'm seeing is a noticeable 10 resistance. 9 is somewhat of a default grade.

[WhiteoutJustin]

How do the TC 2019 rookies typically grade? I have the gold wave auto /50. Is there any typical problem areas I should be on the lookout for?




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[FT35]

Originally Posted by WhiteoutJustin

How do the TC 2019 rookies typically grade? I have the gold wave auto /50. Is there any typical problem areas I should be on the lookout for?

First off...AMAZING card!! Congrats! 2019 TC rookies actually have more grading problems than any other in recent memory. A MAJOR portion of the main 4 rookies Tatis/Vlad/Pete and Eloy were all cut short--not just short but visibly short--like 1/10th of an inch short. At the time of release, many of these cards were returned by PSA because they were deemed "miscut" or failed to meet the minimum size requirement to be graded. It's my understanding that an adjustment has been made by PSA since the vast majority of them were cut wrong. This Tatis looks to be close to standard to the naked eye--but there was a time when all of the big-4 2019 TC rookies were in doubt.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by FT35

I also don't sub more than x amount of the same card per order. That has started to help a little--I think when a grader grades a large stack of the same card, it becomes more comparative grading rather than to the set of grading standards. They find a perfect gem and that becomes the bar for a 10. Whereas, if you had a single copy of 401 in a stack of other cards, and that card happened to be centered 56-44 b/r border, it may still get a 10 because the centering still falls in the gem range.

Little experiment: I bet if you had 25 pack-pulled Tatis 401's to grade, and you sent them all in at once, you'd get 10 or less gems. But if you sent those in over 5 orders--no more than 5 per order, I bet you'd end up with 12-14 gems. The other part of the experiment would be to grade the 25 cards at once as you normally would, keep your 10 gems, then crack and re-sub all 15 9's and see the percentage that come back 10's. At least 3-4 would be my guess.

This is an excellent insight and I wish you had told me about it before I sent in 15+ Vlad/Tatis HHN RCs. Makes perfect sense and is just pure human psychology.

Damn.

Arthur

[WhiteoutJustin]

Originally Posted by FT35

First off...AMAZING card!! Congrats! 2019 TC rookies actually have more grading problems than any other in recent memory. A MAJOR portion of the main 4 rookies Tatis/Vlad/Pete and Eloy were all cut short--not just short but visibly short--like 1/10th of an inch short. At the time of release, many of these cards were returned by PSA because they were deemed "miscut" or failed to meet the minimum size requirement to be graded. It's my understanding that an adjustment has been made by PSA since the vast majority of them were cut wrong. This Tatis looks to be close to standard to the naked eye--but there was a time when all of the big-4 2019 TC rookies were in doubt.

Thank you and thanks for the feedback. I believe this to be a fine card to send PSA super express. I can’t to my eye see anything wrong with it. So I think I’ll send it shortly. I didn’t notice it being any shorter than any of the other cards in the jumbo box so maybe that issue didn’t affect my particular card.


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[hammertime]

Fielding woes continue...

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by FT35

First off...AMAZING card!! Congrats! 2019 TC rookies actually have more grading problems than any other in recent memory. A MAJOR portion of the main 4 rookies Tatis/Vlad/Pete and Eloy were all cut short--not just short but visibly short--like 1/10th of an inch short. At the time of release, many of these cards were returned by PSA because they were deemed "miscut" or failed to meet the minimum size requirement to be graded. It's my understanding that an adjustment has been made by PSA since the vast majority of them were cut wrong. This Tatis looks to be close to standard to the naked eye--but there was a time when all of the big-4 2019 TC rookies were in doubt.

That was just for their 201-204 base cards, their autos are totally different and all should measure up completely fine. Also, I think on the 201-204s that all of their refractors measure up correctly, as well. Which makes sense since they would have been printed separately from the base cards.

Someone can correct me if I'm off on something.

Arthur

[FT35]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

That was just for their 201-204 base cards, their autos are totally different and all should measure up completely fine. Also, I think on the 201-204s that all of their refractors measure up correctly, as well. Which makes sense since they would have been printed separately from the base cards.

Someone can correct me if I'm off on something.

Arthur

True about the base--as most of my base were short. I can't speak for everyone, but I had retail color that was cut short. That would be Sepia, Pink and regular refractors. My Sepia Tatis was the worst of them--I didn't even sub it because it's obviously too small. Tatis Pink, Vlad Sepia, Eloy Sepia were all short. I only pulled one Prism refractor (Alonso) and that one was fine as was my Vlad and 2 Alonso Pinks.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

I wish i had more 'Nandos

[jbruner23]

He just terrorized Devin Williams at first base. Drew 6 throws. Eventually took 3rd on a Hosmer single. May be struggling to catch/throw, but he can hit and run the bases with the best of them.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by jbruner23

He just terrorized Devin Williams at first base. Drew 6 throws. Eventually took 3rd on a Hosmer single. May be struggling to catch/throw, but he can hit and run the bases with the best of them.

'Nandos to the MOON!!!

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Fielding woes continue...

Fernando TatEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs!!!!

[jasonm2121]

Tatis!!!!!!!!!!

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Fernando TatEEEEEEEEEEEEEEs!!!!

You're still trying too hard!

[NYRE2PECT]

This is for the little ‘clectors - mi piqueno familia!





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[BaseballKing]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think the increase in 9s is also due to the fact that collectors are just sending everything in these days. Soto RCs? Send them all in. Vlad RCs? Send them all in.

Where in the not-so-distant past cards would get at least mildly screened, now they're just all getting sent in and folks are hoping for hail Mary miracle 10s. This isn't directed at anyone here but we have to remember that the vast majority of people would make shite card graders.

Arthur

I'm sure there is some truth to this but after my first sub, which was a lesson, I have been pretty selective on what I send in. I had two pack pulled Vladdy no names. Only sent one in, which got a 9. Thought it had a better than 50/50 shot at a 10. But all good. I won't send in the other one.

I probably was hoping for one 10 rather than expecting 10's with the 3 Sotos I sent in. But I was very surprised that neither Tatis Jr. 410 got a 10. I thought both were better than 50/50 with one being almost a certainty.

Interestingly my first card in a sub has never gemmed. Maybe I should've had the Sotos first then the Tatis 410.

I'm sure I'll get over the disappointment quickly once I get the cards in hand.

[BaseballKing]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

We were both late to the grading game for sure. Chasing Acuna and Soto has left me with over 50 Ohtani RC cards across many brands. If only we could both go back to 2018 and submit them in Bulk!!! OH WELL is right!

Wouldn't that be great! I will still send in some Ohtani stuff when PSA re-opens their economy levels. I would like some graded stuff just for PC purposes and I don't feel like shelling out $250 for a Topps Chrome PSA10 when I have more than 10 raw copies - one of which must surely be 10 worthy.

I have some more Tatis stuff that I would like graded but based on this sub's results I'm very reluctant to send them in. Topps Chrome Update/Sterling/Bowman Heritage/etc. I don't think any of it would gem.

I did get a few Tatis Archives to gem but those have a fairly strong ratio of 10's to 9's on the pop reports.

As I said in my last post, once I get them in hand I'll be happy as a p...in ...