PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Still unpaid as of right now.

how many days has it been?

[corndog]

1948 Leaf Joe DiMaggio #1

This card was sold by PWCC as a PSA 4 on Sept. 11, 2017. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...wcc-1890678275
Same card sold by PWCC to Whitman111 (see edit below) as a PSA 1 on June 07, 2017. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...wcc-1871417253

I will let the pictures do the talking. There are so many things that have been done to this poor card it actually saddens me. PSA looking completely incompetent once again...

PSA-1 and PSA-4 fronts



PSA-1 and PSA-4 backs



Adding this from Superdan:

Originally Posted by superdan49

That DiMaggio wasn't just soaked in water, some form of chemical solution was used, as evidenced by the bleached out coloration.

And look who the buyer of that PSA 1 is once again:

[JrFinest]

Wow. That is ridiculous.

[joey_peapod]

I think you guys are giving PWCC way too much credit in all of this. Yes once it’s pointed out it’s on them but they deal with thousands upon thousands cards cards. Your basically saying they are in on it which I just don’t see.

They definitely need to maybe have better checks and balances put in place but the whole reason PSA and BGS exists is so you know exactly what you are getting. I’d say 95% of the blame is on PSA/BGS.

[boston12]

Put everything aside that is some crazy work on that card. Amazing what someone can do

[steadned36]

Originally Posted by joey_peapod

I think you guys are giving PWCC way too much credit in all of this. Yes once it’s pointed out it’s on them but they deal with thousands upon thousands cards cards. Your basically saying they are in on it which I just don’t see.

They definitely need to maybe have better checks and balances put in place but the whole reason PSA and BGS exists is so you know exactly what you are getting. I’d say 95% of the blame is on PSA/BGS.

Law says if you know and don't do anything that you are complicit, albeit to a lesser extent.

[superdan49]

That DiMaggio wasn't just soaked in water, some form of chemical solution was used, as evidenced by the bleached out coloration.

And look who the buyer of that PSA 1 is once again:

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by joey_peapod

I think you guys are giving PWCC way too much credit in all of this. Yes once it’s pointed out it’s on them but they deal with thousands upon thousands cards cards. Your basically saying they are in on it which I just don’t see.

They definitely need to maybe have better checks and balances put in place but the whole reason PSA and BGS exists is so you know exactly what you are getting. I’d say 95% of the blame is on PSA/BGS.

I've defended PWCC on here before, and I give Betsy credited for engaging the board where the TPGs never issue any statements and generally ignore customer complaints.

However, they made the choice to accept cards from Gary Moser with full knowledge of his shady past. Moser chose to bite the hand that fed him, and now PWCC is paying the price.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by joey_peapod

I think you guys are giving PWCC way too much credit in all of this. Yes once it’s pointed out it’s on them but they deal with thousands upon thousands cards cards. Your basically saying they are in on it which I just don’t see.

They definitely need to maybe have better checks and balances put in place but the whole reason PSA and BGS exists is so you know exactly what you are getting. I’d say 95% of the blame is on PSA/BGS.

I’m in between. The grading companies are the most to blame. But PWCC doesn’t do anything until the light is shining really brightly on them. I doubt they would have done anything if the resident detectives simply sent them hundreds of emails instead of posting the cards for all to see.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by superdan49

That DiMaggio wasn't just soaked in water, some form of chemical solution was used, as evidenced by the bleached out coloration.

And look who the buyer of that PSA 1 is once again:

Thanks for the info. I have included your post to my post.

[DaRitz]

Who is the card-doctoring secretary, keeping a log of all of the PSA-slabbed cards?

If I wanted to buy one of these, I don't even know where to begin looking through these threads. Or maybe that's my answer... don't buy any valuable graded cards?! Especially from PWCC? Do we know any other companies who are laundering these cards?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by DaRitz

Who is the card-doctoring secretary, keeping a log of all of the PSA-slabbed cards?

If I wanted to buy one of these, I don't even know where to begin looking through these threads. Or maybe that's my answer... don't buy any valuable graded cards?! Especially from PWCC? Do we know any other companies who are laundering these cards?

You have to evaluate on a card-by-card basis. The cards being posted are a fraction of a percent of everything, so even with it all together there is relatively little value imo.

[discostu]

* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know *

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by discostu

The secretary is coming.

[superdan49]

For those members who thought this would stay confined to the BO boards:

https://prewarcards.com/2019/05/16/b...ds-basketball/


I think this story is going viral within the hobby soon.

[corndog]

I know it's football, but this seems to be the be all vintage thread.

1957 Topps Tommy McDonald RC #124

This card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-8 on Sept. 24, 2018. Worthpoint link: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ald-1949453870
Same card is a current auction by PWCC as a PSA-9. Ebay link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Topps-...QAAOSwG4pc2Eob

Taken directly from the PSA-8 listing description: "Among the key rookies from the 1950s and rarely does it surface in such high grade. A few print dots and a subtle abrasion to the top edge are all that downgrade. Rates at a '2' on our eye appeal scale."

Taken directly from the PSA-9 listing description: "This most recent addition to the PSA 9 family easily boasts the best presentation we've seen on the issue with perfect centering along with four pin-point sharp corners. The surfaces are virtually immaculate with almost zero excess print present; an ultra rare quality for the issue typical plagued by the imperfection. Clean borders with crisp edges and marvelous clarity."

Yellow circles are unique identifiers.
Red marked areas are alterations including added color.

PSA-8 and PSA-9 fronts




PSA-8 and PSA-9 backs

[3124508 on COMC]

The item descriptions never cease to humor me.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

The item descriptions never cease to humor me.

It reads like a bat signal for trimmer(s).

[Morgoth]

This guy has some interesting data

https://www.sportscardanalytics.com/...a-knife-part-3

[shagrotn77]

A black light should have picked up that recoloring. What a shame. That card is so hard to find centered, and some jackass had to go and ruin it.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Morgoth

This guy has some interesting data

https://www.sportscardanalytics.com/...a-knife-part-3

Too far into the rabbit hole for my taste, but 86-87 Fleer is probably the most trimmed modern set ever.

[DaRitz]

PSA owner, Collector's Universe, had a conference call to report earnings on May 1st.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edite...125345514.html

And

http://investors.collectors.com/events

Stock has been doing VERY well... up 26% in May alone.

And their focus for PSA? Faster turnaround! "Turning to PSA. Our short-term goals are clear. Increasing our daily throughput is at the top of the list. Even though the division has been consistently setting new shipping highs year-after-year, we are still unable to properly measure the true demand for our services because of the immense submission backlog that exist."

I'm fairly certain the conference calls are for shareholders only. But it's interesting that not a single question was asked. "Trimming" wasn't mentioned on the call.

[JrFinest]

Originally Posted by DaRitz

PSA owner, Collector's Universe, had a conference call to report earnings on May 1st.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edite...125345514.html

And

http://investors.collectors.com/events

Stock has been doing VERY well... up 26% in May alone.

And their focus for PSA? Faster turnaround! "Turning to PSA. Our short-term goals are clear. Increasing our daily throughput is at the top of the list. Even though the division has been consistently setting new shipping highs year-after-year, we are still unable to properly measure the true demand for our services because of the immense submission backlog that exist."

I'm fairly certain the conference calls are for shareholders only. But it's interesting that not a single question was asked. "Trimming" wasn't mentioned on the call.

Evidently they have a hard time measuring in general. lol.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by DaRitz

"Turning to PSA. Our short-term goals are clear. Increasing our daily throughput is at the top of the list. Even though the division has been consistently setting new shipping highs year-after-year, we are still unable to properly measure the true demand for our services because of the immense submission backlog that exist."

Don't just gloss over this... ;-)

[corndog]

1969 Topps Larry Csonka RC #120

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-8 on May 22, 2018 for $197.50. PWCC link (not on Worthpoint): https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1661451
Same card is a current auction by PWCC as a PSA-9 and sold for $2324.44. Ebay link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-...gAAOSwBYhc2E5L

Purchased by Gary Moser for $197.50



Card has been blessed with an "A" Eye Appeal PWCC sticker.
This was a tough card to match up due to color enhancement on front and back and a lower resolution on the PSA-8 scans.
Card appears to be trimmed at the top.

Taken from the PSA-9 listing description: "Easily the best Csonka rookie card we've brokered in years. This card boasts all that eye appeal of a GEM MINT card with only the faintest of touches to the lower two preventing the assessment. The top two corners are untouched, the centering is perfect and the edges are razor sharp. The card possesses the best print we've seen on the issue along with stunning print and clarity."

PSA-8 and PSA-9 fronts



PSA-8 and PSA-9 backs



A clearer scan of the front thanks to another forum member.