PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[TheRealDeal]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I've heard others I trust attest to his honesty, but for the sake of his business, he needs to explain his relationship with Moser. More Whitman111/Moser stuff is likely to come up as sold through him and he needs to make a plan going forward on how to contact victims.

I can’t think of ever hearing a bad word about Novella. I’ve also never heard a good word about Brent other than from those who are paid to do so.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by TheRealDeal

I can’t think of ever hearing a bad word about Novella. I’ve also never heard a good word about Brent other than from those who are paid to do so.

In that case, all Novella has to do is publicly state he has cut business ties with Moser and that he will try to locate those folks who purchased altered cards from him in the hopes of buying them back. If he could provide a list of all cards Moser consigned with him too, that would make him a gold-star seller in my book.

[TheRealDeal]

Originally Posted by superdan49

In that case, all Novella has to do is publicly state he has cut business ties with Moser and that he will try to locate those folks who purchased altered cards from him in the hopes of buying them back. If he could provide a list of all cards Moser consigned with him too, that would make him a gold-star seller in my book.

Yes that’s fair although I don’t think he will provide a list of all consignments. Of course PWCC will do nothing other than staying one step ahead of the posse.

[mjohnatgt]

Working on the submission via the PSA cert lookup:
42885887 *no cert*
888 1951 Bowman Willie Mays PSA 4
889 - 895 *no cert*
896 1954 Topps Hank Aaron RC PSA 4
897 *no cert*
898 1955 Topps Willie Mays PSA 7.5
899 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente RC PSA 5
900 1955 Topps Sandy Koufax RC PSA 6
901 1956 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4.5
902 *no cert*
903 1958 Topps Jim Brown PSA 8
904 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain PSA 6
905-907 *no cert*
908 1888 N162 Cap Anson PSA 4
909 1888 N162 Beecher PSA 5
910 1909-11 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara St Louis PSA 1.5
911 T206 Polar Bear Demmitt St Louis PSA 3.5
912 T206 Sweet Cap Cobb Green PSA 2.5
913 T206 Sweet Cap Walter Johnson Portrait PSA 4
914 T206 Sweet Cap Walter Johnson Hands PSA 5
915 *no cert*

[mjohnatgt]

Can it be that long before PSA tells PWCC they can't submit any more cards on behalf of consignors?

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think you're being a little melodramatic. To put things in perspective: there are over 28,000 PSA graded cards sold on eBay every week. There are more than 6,500 PSA graded cards that sell for more than $75 every week on eBay. That's just eBay and those are just what's sold.



Arthur

Well it doesn't take thousands to shake consumer confidence. That's whats happening here.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Working on the submission via the PSA cert lookup:
42885887 *no cert*
888 1951 Bowman Willie Mays PSA 4
889 - 895 *no cert*
896 1954 Topps Hank Aaron RC PSA 4
897 *no cert*
898 1955 Topps Willie Mays PSA 7.5
899 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente RC PSA 5
900 1955 Topps Sandy Koufax RC PSA 6
901 1956 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4.5
902 *no cert*
903 1958 Topps Jim Brown PSA 8
904 1961 Fleer Wilt Chamberlain PSA 6
905-907 *no cert*
908 1888 N162 Cap Anson PSA 4
909 1888 N162 Beecher PSA 5
910 1909-11 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara St Louis PSA 1.5
911 T206 Polar Bear Demmitt St Louis PSA 3.5
912 T206 Sweet Cap Cobb Green PSA 2.5
913 T206 Sweet Cap Walter Johnson Portrait PSA 4
914 T206 Sweet Cap Walter Johnson Hands PSA 5
915 *no cert*

I’d love to have that Jim Brown card researches.

[TheRealDeal]

Originally Posted by tconte

I found Leon and net54 to be very helpful in discussing the PWCC issues and fraud with
trimmed cards in their auctions. I'm on both boards and he seems to be very receptive
to get to the bottom of what's going on and exposing the shaningans.

Hopefully, we get the details to the forged t206 cards that were sold. I believe he is
looking to get this out to the public.

Really? He just banned a ten year member and erased his post in which he brought up PWCC’s massive fraud. You’re dreaming if you think Leon has not done all he can to stop any criticism of PWCC.

[irv]

Originally Posted by CardsCollectMe

Wow. All this stuff has literally destroyed any trust I may have had in PSA graded cards being unaltered. It's literally their business model, and they have completely and utterly failed at it.

I gave up on PSA and PWCC at least 2 years ago or more. I have never submitted to PSA to have cards graded but I was considering them, among SGC and Beckett to have my raw 52 Topps cards graded. I joined Net54 back in Jan of 2016 as basically a new guy to collecting as I wasn't aware these card forums existed but I was glad to find out they did. In my relative short time there, I have learned a lot. Being totally unfamiliar with grading and asking far too many questions about my own cards and their grades, I was rudely told to do my own home work, which I did and afterwards I was thankful for the rude push. It was in doing that that I noticed some severe inconsistencies in their grading practices. Just when I thought I was getting a handle on things, something else popped up and all that I thought I had learned went right out the window. Needless to say, after my own experience of trying to get a handle on grading and seeing some pretty messed up/questionable grades/things, I totally backed away from considering them to grade my cards.
In a nutshell, the same type of behavior, although obviously different with PWCC, I quit purchasing from them as well. Just way too many things that made me shake my head in disbelief.

Originally Posted by HarryLime

I think you're being a little melodramatic. To put things in perspective: there are over 28,000 PSA graded cards sold on eBay every week. There are more than 6,500 PSA graded cards that sell for more than $75 every week on eBay. That's just eBay and those are just what's sold.

Arthur

Harry, I don't know if you have a vested interested in PSA or not or you just have a fair amount of money tied up in PSA graded cards but your comments lean to/suggest that you think PSA are free and clear to carry on with what they have always been doing? Like I wrote above, in my few short years back in the hobby, the things, inconsistent things, I have seen from them, leads me to believe they are also not above board when it comes to some issues within the card collecting/grading hobby. Just my opinion, of course.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

I’d love to have that Jim Brown card researches.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1964848

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

I’d love to have that Jim Brown card researches.

I found the before and after coming. Trimmed and recolored, as you will see shortly.

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Can it be that long before PSA tells PWCC they can't submit any more cards on behalf of consignors?

PWCC is not submitting the cards for grading.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I found the before and after coming. Trimmed and recolored, as you will see shortly.

You work so fast. I just searched back to summer 2018 through eBay and Heritage and couldn't find it.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

PWCC is not submitting the cards for grading.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

They have admitted to grading the DiMaggio WWG for a client.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=147

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

You work so fast. I just searched back to summer 2018 through eBay and Heritage and couldn't find it.

I'm using PWCC's own archive. Most of the major whitman stuff seems to go through PWCC.

[3124508 on COMC]

No payment made on '52 Mantle yet.

[CaptSpaulding]

I cannot imagine that Steve Novella would be taking consignments from known card doctors. I could imagine that he has taken consignments from people who have cards in their collections which have been altered given how many cards out there are altered and in holders.

With regards to the Campbell and the Ruth, if other cards that were auctioned with the Campbell and Ruth turned up as altered then maybe there is something worth pursuing but I would be completely shocked if Steve was complicit in the selling of known altered cards. I cannot imagine a scenario where he could be found to be tied to Whitman.

[JMANIA]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

They have admitted to grading the DiMaggio WWG for a client.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...&postcount=147

I think I am correct that generally the consignors are having the cards graded and then sending to PWCC. That is his business model. Send by X date for Auction Y and rates based upon raw, graded, etc. Whatever the deal with that DiMaggio, we do not know whose card it really was, and even if he sent in a card for a client, that would be the exception not the norm.

[devo]

Why was superdan suspended? Did I miss something?

[qdoggmets]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

No payment made on '52 Mantle yet.

How can you tell that?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by qdoggmets

How can you tell that?

PWCC hasn't left feedback for the buyer.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

I think I am correct that generally the consignors are having the cards graded and then sending to PWCC. That is his business model. Send by X date for Auction Y and rates based upon raw, graded, etc. Whatever the deal with that DiMaggio, we do not know whose card it really was, and even if he sent in a card for a client, that would be the exception not the norm.

Generally speaking, you are correct. Specifically speaking to certain consignors, I think you would be mistaken.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by superdan49

I'm using PWCC's own archive. Most of the major whitman stuff seems to go through PWCC.

Any reason why Dan is suspended?

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by JMANIA

I think I am correct that generally the consignors are having the cards graded and then sending to PWCC. That is his business model. Send by X date for Auction Y and rates based upon raw, graded, etc. Whatever the deal with that DiMaggio, we do not know whose card it really was, and even if he sent in a card for a client, that would be the exception not the norm.

Sure. But the fact remains they are purchasing and grading very high-end cards for certain clients. That one just so happened to be altered.

[3124508 on COMC]

1959 Topps Football #62 Jim Brown RC from SGC 7.5 to PSA 8

Purchased as an SGC 7.5 from PWCC by whitman111 for $2,026
Same card later sold as a PSA 8 by PWCC for $13,998
Value gain of $11,972!

Here we have whitman111 purchasing an SGC 7.5 Jim Brown rookie card from PWCC, cracking it out, smoothing over and reshaping one of the corners, and recoloring an obverse print flaw. He then submitted it to PSA, which missed the alterations, awarding the card a PSA 8 grade. He then consigned the altered card to PWCC, which recently sold it.


https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1685769



https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1964848


Note the distinctive fish-eyes on the reverse, as well as a similar pattern of edge wear, all highlighted in blue. The cards are one and the same.








In the above image, the red circle shows a common paper fiber. The blue square shows the area recolored, which you can see in the enlarged image on the right.

Conclusion: This card has been altered.