PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[3124508 on COMC]

Up for auction with PWCC next month. Putting here before I send it off with several others already posted to them to be removed. I do not see any other sales of this card in graded form, suggesting it might've been consigned by the trimmer.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2143350
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...era-1941825168

[corndog]

Came across this card when searching for another card. There is an almost three year gap between the card being purchased as a PSA 8
and being trimmed and sold as a PSA 9. Whoever consigned the card to Heritage is likely the trimmer due to the short timeline of the
cert number and sale date. The masked VCP ID is 0***j (the number zero at the beginning). I am posting this card in this thread for now
and if there are further developments I will edit as needed.


PSA Cert #43555444

1957 Topps New York Yankees #97 - Population 1 of 7 - none higher

Value gain of $2,918.44

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer with masked VCP ID 0***j (zero***j) from Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8 for $1,281.56 on September 11, 2016.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1343580

Same card was sold by Heritage Auctions as a PSA 9 for $4,200.00 on July 20, 2019.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...46/65716/PSA/9

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies trimmed right edge.

[Pink Pussycat]

$4,200 for a badly (and obviously) trimmed Yankees Team Card. You can buy Maracas in Tijuana for about two bucks.

Although despicable, it's hard to feel sorry for the investor who won it. Way more money than common sense.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

$4,200 for a badly (and obviously) trimmed Yankees Team Card. You can buy Maracas in Tijuana for about two bucks.

Although despicable, it's hard to feel sorry for the investor who won it. Way more money than common sense.

IDK, some people are really into the team cards of their team. But with that said, I truly hope the buyer learns what happened to his card.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

IDK, some people are really into the team cards of their team. But with that said, I truly hope the buyer learns what happened to his card.

It's like what somebody wrote in compilation of advise - the Set Registry is the crack of collecting. Many many people will do absurd/illogical/irrational things to be #1...including me - who is now out of PSA minus a few PC cards.

No more PSA.

No more PWCC, Probstein, or the Trimmers Underground.

[corndog]

This complete set of 1953 Parkhurst Hockey cards was purchased with the whitman111 (Gary Moser) Ebay ID from PWCC on March 27, 2017.
I would imagine that most or all of these cards have taken on a new identity.

Worthpoint link:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ete-1857113319

PWCC feedback left for whitman111 (ricky-leo):



The cards that had images - the four graded cards in the middle do not have post purchase sales according to PSA:

[Leon]

I hope you BODA guys keep doing what you are doing. It is the greatest service to this hobby since Jefferson Burdick started the American Card Catalog in 1939. Please keep doing it, guys. Your work is appreciated by every honest person in the hobby. Thanks!!!

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

$4,200 for a badly (and obviously) trimmed Yankees Team Card. You can buy Maracas in Tijuana for about two bucks.

Although despicable, it's hard to feel sorry for the investor who won it. Way more money than common sense.

Do you collect vintage cards? The trimmed example is EASILY within common size parameters. You're talking about micrometers. I don't think we need to get into the victim shaming business here. Let's try to keep our ire focused on the people that are doing this.

Arthur

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Leon

I hope you BODA guys keep doing what you are doing. It is the greatest service to this hobby since Jefferson Burdick started the American Card Catalog in 1939. Please keep doing it, guys. Your work is appreciated by every honest person in the hobby. Thanks!!!

This can only mean one thing... Leon has just thrown you guys under the bus somewhere.

Arthur

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by Leon

I hope you BODA guys keep doing what you are doing. It is the greatest service to this hobby since Jefferson Burdick started the American Card Catalog in 1939. Please keep doing it, guys. Your work is appreciated by every honest person in the hobby. Thanks!!!

Leon, thank you for your support. Any chance you could help us with the name of the buyer of this Mayo card in BL Auctions? It is my understanding that the L in BL stands for Luckey.

Originally Posted by superdan49

PSA Cert #:16742024

1895 N300 Mayo's Cut Plug John Clarkson SGC 3 to PSA 5.5
Alteration types: Creases pressed, soaking damage
Set Registry status: bkh'sMagnificent (regardless of Condition) Mayos

Sold on 3/8/2010 as a SGC 3 by BL Auctions to an unknown buyer for $1,512.00
Consigned to Mile High Card Co. and sold on 11/27/2010 as a PSA 5.5 for $2,319.31
Final price: $2,319.31
Value gain: $807.31


This card has been soaked in some solution, although I defer to experts on whether that is water or some chemical compound. Regardless, look at the areas of staining on the SGC 3, the largest of which is outlined in red. That staining has been essentially eliminated in the PSA 5.5, although instead the card has become discolored. The red arrow points to the difference in tone after the card was soaked and unnecessarily damaged. On the back there are two creases, circled in green. They cannot be seen in the PSA 5.5.

This card was purchased from now-defunct BL Auctions in March 2010, altered, graded, and consigned for sale with Mile High in November 2010. I would say the likelihood of the consignor and the card doctor being the same person (or in a partnership) are high. Please note: The images used of the SGC 3 are from the card's 2007 Heritage sale.

SGC 3:https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...7/39207/SGC/40
PSA 5.5: https://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDe...ntoryid=16713#

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Leon, thank you for your support. Any chance you could help us with the name of the buyer of this Mayo card in BL Auctions? It is my understanding that the L in BL stands for Luckey.

Let's take bets.

[tconte]

This complete set of 1953 Parkhurst Hockey cards was purchased with the whitman111 (Gary Moser) Ebay ID from PWCC on March 27, 2017.
I would imagine that most or all of these cards have taken on a new identity.

It's always possible Gary started collecting the 1953 Parkhurst Hockey set
to go with his passion and love of the hobby.

or

I wouldn't touch this set with a ten foot pole and if I had a set going on
the PSA registry I'd be selling.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by Leon

I hope you BODA guys keep doing what you are doing. It is the greatest service to this hobby since Jefferson Burdick started the American Card Catalog in 1939. Please keep doing it, guys. Your work is appreciated by every honest person in the hobby. Thanks!!!

Leon, thank you for the kind words.

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

This can only mean one thing... Leon has just thrown you guys under the bus somewhere.

Arthur

Arthur, here is Leon throwing BODA under the bus somewhere on 7/17/2019:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...6&postcount=98

"And those guys doing all of the outing could be Peter Nash or worse. How do you know they aren't? I imagine some of the guys are decent guys but without knowing who they are how do you know? I could almost guarantee some are low life criminals, but again, since the mods protect them there is no way to know. Cesspool with a few good guys if you ask me. No thanks."

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Arthur, here is Leon throwing BODA under the bus somewhere on 7/17/2019:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...6&postcount=98

"And those guys doing all of the outing could be Peter Nash or worse. How do you know they aren't? I imagine some of the guys are decent guys but without knowing who they are how do you know? I could almost guarantee some are low life criminals, but again, since the mods protect them there is no way to know. Cesspool with a few good guys if you ask me. No thanks."

I think 312, Superdan and Corndog are all Peter Nash.

[ThoseBackPages]

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by Leon

I hope you BODA guys keep doing what you are doing. It is the greatest service to this hobby since Jefferson Burdick started the American Card Catalog in 1939. Please keep doing it, guys. Your work is appreciated by every honest person in the hobby. Thanks!!!

5/8/2019 from Leon:
"For those that think Brent is knowingly doing bad things in the hobby I couldn't disagree more."
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...2&postcount=46

[ken161]

Originally Posted by tconte

It's always possible Gary started collecting the 1953 Parkhurst Hockey set
to go with his passion and love of the hobby.

or

I wouldn't touch this set with a ten foot pole and if I had a set going on
the PSA registry I'd be selling.

I would go with the second of the two options.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Do you collect vintage cards? The trimmed example is EASILY within common size parameters. You're talking about micrometers. I don't think we need to get into the victim shaming business here. Let's try to keep our ire focused on the people that are doing this.

Arthur

Yes, I collect vintage cards with a passion. That's why this entire scandal is so devastating to me personally. The thousands of altered cards that are perceived as legitimate (simply because they reside in errant PSA Holders) has perpetuated the fraud more than any other component of this scandal.

As far as "victim shaming"... I am not blaming the victim, even though it's this type of behavior that motivates and enables the card doctors to do what they do. I still place the blame on Card Doctors and TPGs, but have more apathy than empathy towards this type of victim.

Most advanced and/or long-time collectors advise to buy the card- not the holder. Or they say it's essential to do your own homework, and not to rely on the slab. Everyone says that measures such as this are your best protection against card doctors, shady dealers, and PSA's incompetence.

The buyer of the obviously trimmed Yankees Team Card exercised none of this, and was blinded/hypnotized by a number. He could have gotten a far better unaltered card in EXMT condition for under $50. But ego and greed got in the way.

It's the type of collector for which I have the least empathy. Feeding the corrupt PSA machine with blinders on. How many more "outings" will it take before this type of collector realizes they're being taken to the cleaners?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

Yes, I collect vintage cards with a passion. That's why this entire scandal is so devastating to me personally. The thousands of altered cards that are perceived as legitimate (simply because they reside in errant PSA Holders) has perpetuated the fraud more than any other component of this scandal.

As far as "victim shaming"... I am not blaming the victim, even though it's this type of behavior that motivates and enables the card doctors to do what they do. I still place the blame on Card Doctors and TPGs, but have more apathy than empathy towards this type of victim.

Most advanced and/or long-time collectors advise to buy the card- not the holder. Or they say it's essential to do your own homework, and not to rely on the slab. Everyone says that measures such as this are your best protection against card doctors, shady dealers, and PSA's incompetence.

The buyer of the obviously trimmed Yankees Team Card exercised none of this, and was blinded/hypnotized by a number. He could have gotten a far better unaltered card in EXMT condition for under $50. But ego and greed got in the way.

It's the type of collector for which I have the least empathy. Feeding the corrupt PSA machine with blinders on. How many more "outings" will it take before this type of collector realizes they're being taken to the cleaners?

Good points. However, as an aside, I wonder who is bidding up and buying these cards at inflated prices...its easy to suspect the criminals are given NOTHING we see about the grading game is trustworthy per se. So I think its entirely possible the Yankees Team card sale is not legitimate.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Good points. However, as an aside, I wonder who is bidding up and buying these cards at inflated prices...its easy to suspect the criminals are given NOTHING we see about the grading game is trustworthy per se. So I think its entirely possible the Yankees Team card sale is not legitimate.

I hadn't thought of that, but it's entirely possible. Great point.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

The buyer of the obviously trimmed Yankees Team Card exercised none of this, and was blinded/hypnotized by a number. He could have gotten a far better unaltered card in EXMT condition for under $50. But ego and greed got in the way.

This is a mistake I made many times in the past but will never make again. Never get cheated.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

The buyer of the obviously trimmed Yankees Team Card exercised none of this, and was blinded/hypnotized by a number. He could have gotten a far better unaltered card in EXMT condition for under $50. But ego and greed got in the way.

It's the type of collector for which I have the least empathy. Feeding the corrupt PSA machine with blinders on. How many more "outings" will it take before this type of collector realizes they're being taken to the cleaners?

You're making a lot of assumptions about the motives of a collector you've never met or spoken to. Believe it or not, there are true collectors out there that collect high-grade vintage. Their financial position allows them to collect high-grade so they do. This doesn't make them any less of a "true collector" than the person that spends $1 on a card.

Yeah, there absolutely are speckled-dick yam boxes out there that only care about the number on the slab and only care about getting the certificate at the PSA luncheon every year. But it's been my experience that there are less of these type people than there are true collectors, even in high-grade. I think it's wrong to just blindly light someone up for something they may not even be doing, especially when they've been the victim of true dbags that are taking proactive steps in murdering the joy in the hobby.

Arthur

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Arthur, here is Leon throwing BODA under the bus somewhere on 7/17/2019:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...6&postcount=98

"And those guys doing all of the outing could be Peter Nash or worse. How do you know they aren't? I imagine some of the guys are decent guys but without knowing who they are how do you know? I could almost guarantee some are low life criminals, but again, since the mods protect them there is no way to know. Cesspool with a few good guys if you ask me. No thanks."

Yeah, but he just said nice words (even if he didn't mean them) so it's all okay now.

Arthur

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You're making a lot of assumptions about the motives of a collector you've never met or spoken to. Believe it or not, there are true collectors out there that collect high-grade vintage. Their financial position allows them to collect high-grade so they do. This doesn't make them any less of a "true collector" than the person that spends $1 on a card.

Yeah, there absolutely are speckled-dick yam boxes out there that only care about the number on the slab and only care about getting the certificate at the PSA luncheon every year. But it's been my experience that there are less of these type people than there are true collectors, even in high-grade. I think it's wrong to just blindly light someone up for something they may not even be doing, especially when they've been the victim of true dbags that are taking proactive steps in murdering the joy in the hobby.

Arthur

That's fair... I don't know the specific collector, and definitely made some assumptions.

But it is those "speckled-dick yam boxes that only care about the number on the slab" who my comments were targeted at. Perhaps this guy fits the mold, and maybe not. Either way, it's sad that he was duped.