PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27015752

1953 Topps Willie Mays SHORT PRINT #244

Value gain of $465.00

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-2 on October 13, 2016 for $500.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1362836
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-4 for $965.00 on May 09, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1486681

Yellow circles are fiber or print mark identifiers.
Back of card has been cleaned without info that it has.

[GatorPie]

Originally Posted by smanzari

Here's One (alteration v. conservation)

Here's Another (PWCC Vault)

Just wow, reading over there. They relentlessly bash PWCC and yet have nary a word to say about PSA. One guy implied PSA has some problems and was shouted down, because PSA is "the best".

I still view PSA as by-far the biggest problem in this fiasco.

[mrdallas]

Originally Posted by GatorPie

Just wow, reading over there. They relentlessly bash PWCC and yet have nary a word to say about PSA. One guy implied PSA has some problems and was shouted down, because PSA is "the best".

I still view PSA as by-far the biggest problem in this fiasco.

They try to rip PSA but they are told to "stay" civil by the moderator. In other words PSA wont allow it

[corndog]

PSA Cert #27898963

1909-11 T206 Ray Demmitt ST. LOUIS, POLAR BEAR

Value gain of $2,247.77

This card was sold by PWCC to whitman111 (Gary Moser) as a PSA-3 on October 11, 2016 for $2,480.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1360941
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-4 for $4,727.77 on May 09, 2017. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1555227

Yellow circles are fiber or print mark identifiers.
Red circles: Noticeable crease smoothed out and color added. Spots cleaned front and back. Edge repair.

[superdan49]

What the heck happened to that crease on that Demmitt?

That has to be recolored, right?!

[corndog]

Originally Posted by superdan49

What the heck happened to that crease on that Demmitt?

That has to be recolored, right?!

I would assume so. There is no other way to hide the white line created by the cracked enamel.

[GatorPie]

I'm sure he soaked it and was able to greatly de-emphasize the crease. Then he colored in where he had to.

[Fudd]

Originally Posted by Vintagecollect

Says he who is 100s of thousands (?l deep in PSA cards

Me too....and I feel the same way. I'm not going to let criminals stop me from stating my opinion even if I have to risk everything. I'm not going to sit quiet why some numb nuts robs people blind.

[CaptSpaulding]

He is quite the talent. Not sure how he gets color added by the graders. Can understand the trimming because he targets oversized cards and can mimic cuts. I am undecided as to whether PSA is looking the other way or just not looking hard enough.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

He is quite the talent. Not sure how he gets color added by the graders. Can understand the trimming because he targets oversized cards and can mimic cuts. I am undecided as to whether PSA is looking the other way or just not looking hard enough.

Based on this evidence on the Demmitt card, I'm going to assume with artistic skill and over two decades of experimentation with different inks, a skilled card doctor like Moser would know how to add a touch of color to a T206 card.

To me this card is frightening because of the implications of its discovery.

[corndog]

Finding these is sickening...

This is more widespread than most can imagine.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Based on this evidence on the Demmitt card, I'm going to assume with artistic skill and over two decades of experimentation with different inks, a skilled card doctor like Moser would know how to add a touch of color to a T206 card.

To me this card is frightening because of the implications of its discovery.

Hey Dan,

You and corndog have shown several examples of cards that have had print spots removed. I think over time this is going to have a huge impact on the market for PSA graded cards in all grades.

Greg

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Based on this evidence on the Demmitt card, I'm going to assume with artistic skill and over two decades of experimentation with different inks, a skilled card doctor like Moser would know how to add a touch of color to a T206 card.

To me this card is frightening because of the implications of its discovery.

My first thought was that it had to be a different card, so i had to take a closer look.

But its not, I'm certain its the same card. There are too many similarities.

[superdan49]

PSA Cert #:26928997

1952 Topps Look 'N See #107 George C. Marshall PSA 8 to PSA 9

Sold on 1/21/2017 as a PSA 8 by eBay seller charlesshewmake2012 to whitman111 for $73.00
Consigned to PWCC and sold on 5/23/2017 as a PSA 9 for $574.87
Value gain of $501.87


This George Marshall '52 Topps Look 'N See was cracked out of its PSA 8 case and the right edge was trimmed. You can see how significant that trim was by comparing the edge in the blue rectangle. Centering issues are fixed by trimming.

The detail of print marks on the card back proves they are one and the same. Look inside the green circles on the third image below.


https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...rge-1851065185



https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1494905
[/QUOTE]







Even without VCP's buyer data, it can be proven that Moser is the buyer of an untrimmed card. 1***1 is the code eBay uses to mask whitman111 when he leaves feedback for another eBayer.

On another note, this card recently sold again, for $1,020.00 with Heritage Auctions in February. It is presently in a private set registry.

[no10pin]

I feel like this could literally go on forever. I have no doubt that if every single item was known across all sports (and non-sports apparently), the value increase would be $10 million+. If Mastro and his crew went to jail, I don't see how this doesn't wind up being bigger.

I've been collecting for about 30 years, and I'm an extremely small fish in the pond, but I would say my PC contains around $15k in graded stuff. I dumped about $2k last week, and posted a bunch of auctions to do the same this week. I have deleted every item I had on the PSA registry, and will sell off every registry set I was building. It's truly the end for me when it comes to this stuff, and I thought I'd be passing those cards down to my kids. Not that they would have cared of course

I'll keep PCing Brett and other sets that I like, but this has really changed my view on the hobby as a whole, and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was serious about donating to get a site up and running too, if that gets moving please let me know and I will be glad to contribute to the cause.

[SetBuilder]

Over two years ago...

Remember the statute of limitations. Can be as few as 2 years in some jurisdictions.

[mjohnatgt]

There is no time limit on the PSA Grade Guarantee.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by no10pin

I feel like this could literally go on forever. I have no doubt that if every single item was known across all sports (and non-sports apparently), the value increase would be $10 million+. If Mastro and his crew went to jail, I don't see how this doesn't wind up being bigger.

I've been collecting for about 30 years, and I'm an extremely small fish in the pond, but I would say my PC contains around $15k in graded stuff. I dumped about $2k last week, and posted a bunch of auctions to do the same this week. I have deleted every item I had on the PSA registry, and will sell off every registry set I was building. It's truly the end for me when it comes to this stuff, and I thought I'd be passing those cards down to my kids. Not that they would have cared of course

I'll keep PCing Brett and other sets that I like, but this has really changed my view on the hobby as a whole, and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was serious about donating to get a site up and running too, if that gets moving please let me know and I will be glad to contribute to the cause.

I don't think it would be out of line to say that PWCC's historical gross income is less than their total sales of trimmed cards.

[I only pull for]

Have you guys noticed any of these altered cards in SGC cases?

I remember the Brady, but that is the only one that I can remember seeing in a SGC holder. Looks like these #@#@#@#@#@#@#@s like to alter cards that are in SGC holders, though.

[BLongley]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Just saw this

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by I only pull for

Have you guys noticed any of these altered cards in SGC cases?

I remember the Brady, but that is the only one that I can remember seeing in a SGC holder. Looks like these #@#@#@#@#@#@#@s like to alter cards that are in SGC holders, though.

Why would they put cards in SGC holders if they can sell them for more in PSA holders? Only reason is because PSA rejected it.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by BLongley

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/

Just saw this

Holy crap, that needs its own thread.

[chiefsncards275]

Originally Posted by BLongley

http://www.sportscardradio.com/gary-...-bidding-scam/



Just saw this

This is exactly the type of article that is needed. Also side note, Betsy is actually pretty hot! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[I only pull for]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Why would they put cards in SGC holders if they can sell them for more in PSA holders? Only reason is because PSA rejected it.

Maybe not with pre-war cards. SGC has a large following in that market and those cards often fetch premiums.

[TheRealDeal]

This is a PSA problem more than PWCC. Brent is one dealer. PSA is allowing the most obviously altered cards, tens of millions of dollars worth, to flow into the market. If their guarantee is honored completely on all of these cards, CLCT will cease to exist. Which means they won’t honor it.